Transcript:
Erick: Hello friends, my name is Erick Cloward and welcome to the Stoic Coffee Break. The Stoic Coffee Break is a weekly podcast where I take aspects of Stoicism and do my best to break them down to their most important points. I share my thoughts on Stoic philosophy and my experiences, both my successes and my failures, and hope that you can learn something from them all within the space of a coffee break.
Now this week's episode is another interview episode. I had the pleasure of interviewing J. R. Martinez. He's an Iraqi war vet and a motivational speaker and he won the Dancing with the Stars contest/competition just a couple of years ago. We had a fun and very interesting interview talking about all different aspects of life, overcoming challenges, and how learning how to control what you can't and letting go of what you can't can make your life just that much better.
So this was a really enjoyable interview. I also want to apologize that, for whatever reason, Zoom switched my mic on me, so my side doesn't sound as good as it normally does, because it was using my computer mic instead of my regular professional mic. So I apologize for that rookie mistake on my side for not checking those things.
Anyway, I really hope you enjoyed this interview as much as I enjoyed making it. Thanks again for listening.
J.R.: First and foremost, we're human. And I think that's one of the biggest things I tell people is that, you know, for what people think of when they think of me or what people know of me, they immediately think of like, Oh, you, you just must wake up like Mickey mouse, like, and everything's okay today.
It's going to be a great day. And it's like, no, it's not like that. Right. And that's why I tell you have to practice positivity daily. You have to practice. You know stoicism daily you have to practice whatever it is that you follow that keeps you grounded And allows you to be able to show up in the way that you want to be able to show up Um, you have to practice that every day because there's going to be so many things outside of your control that are going to challenge you and I think that's when you know, listen not to get too deep into this, but You know, I grew up in a very catholic home.
My mother, you know catholic and went to church and um You And my mother was all about, you know, obviously God and, you know, but we're Hispanic. So we believe in like every Saint that existed. Um, and you know, it's like, well, you pray to this Saint because this Saint does this. You pray to that Saint because that Saint does that.
And so there's all these, you can't keep up with all of them. And, um, but I remember, you know, one of the conflicts my mother and I had, you know, years ago was, you know, she talked about faith so much. And I said, you know, faith isn't about having it and, and, and, and reciting scriptures and what, you know, whatever sermon you heard when things are good.
It's about when things are challenging, it's how do you then get to that foundation that you say you have in this and pull from that, that's going to allow you to keep a level head. That's going to allow you to believe that there is, if you believe there is a, you know, Being that is essentially controlling and there's all a purpose of it all then you got to buy into that and you got to believe that And that's always been a challenge i've had not only with my mother and religion But just with people in general like people are so gung ho about this and gung ho about that And then shit hits the fan and people are like, oh my god, I don't know and it's like, okay You're allowed to be human and grieve it and process it and have raw, real emotions about it.
But then at a certain point, you have to then identify that's consuming a lot of your life, a lot of your day. What do I do differently? And if you like that feeling, then cool. But I'm gonna tell you one thing, don't come back to me talking about, this is my anchor. Well, because when I saw shit hit the fan, that anchor didn't help you at all.
That, that thing did not stick, that thing was moving and you were being drifted off into the sea. And so, you know, it's, uh, I think, you know, anyways, that's, that's one of those things JR tends to do is go on a rant for no apparent reason. Just what was on my head.
Erick: Yeah, no, I, I understand that. So I. You know, this is one of the things the Stoics talk about a lot is that it's not about upholding your principles when it's easy, it's about upholding them when it's hard.
That's what's important, you know, because anybody can do, do the right thing when it's easy, you know, like, you know, if it doesn't, if it doesn't cost you much, it's not a struggle. It's not anything that puts you out of your way. It's not anything that really, really challenges you. Of course, you can do the right thing.
But when it's challenging, when you have something before you that, pushes you, tests you, that makes you really, really stay up at night. Like, you know, ethical challenges, for example, it's like, well, you could do this and you probably wouldn't get caught doing it and you would make this much amount of money.
You know, but it's not the right thing to do. And you're going to be sitting there going, well, but if you have, like you said, if you have that anchor, it's not even a question you just simply go, no, that's just not in my wheelhouse. That's not part of my, that's not how I want to live my life. And even if it's easy money, even if I would never get caught doing that.
It's still not the right thing to do. And, you know, and when you find difficult challenges, the same thing, it's like, it doesn't matter how easy or how hard it is. It's like you, your values and your virtues aren't worth anything if they're only applicable when it's easy. And I think that, yeah, it's the same thing.
Like you were saying, you know, they're losing their shit when, you know, something gets hard and it's like, well, don't you have this faith that you've been, you've been relying on, or you say is so important to you lean on that. Yeah,
J.R.: exactly. Like, like, I mean, I can't tell you how many things outside of the obvious that has happened to me where I've just been like.
I got to trust. I don't know what the hell is coming up. I don't know why this happened. I don't understand this at all, but I just got to trust and the shit sucks right now, but I just got to trust. And, you know, it's like that thing. It's, it's, um, The Gandhi quote where it says, Oh God, I'm going to mess it up.
I, I hate when I do that. Like, I'm like, so and so said, and then people are like, what did he say? Or what'd she say? And then I'm like, well, I'm gonna fuck up the quote. But essentially what they said was this, that the people were like, Oh, like it just completely loses its, its power. It's sting. But you know, where Gandhi said like the best way to, to heal was essentially to like lose yourself and other people like doing for others and and you know, it's so true however, I always tell people it's like that doesn't necessarily mean that you just Like you're not paying attention. You're not aware. You're not understanding, you know, the conversations and the things that are happening around you, because all of that, you know, you're talking about software, everything, you know, and technology is about data.
Everything that we gather in the world is about data. Companies are gathering data. You know, brands that data getting feedback, getting information, surveys are being sent out nonstop. Hey, Erick, what could we have done differently? Hey, Jr. What did you like about this? What didn't you like about this data, data, data, data, data, and the more data that you get, you essentially break all that down and it allows us to be more efficient, to be able to create a product or to maybe eliminate a product in order for, to, to make more money, serve more people, have more success.
And I tell people, I was like, I think that's one of the things that has allowed me to succeed is that yes, I have immersed myself in, or in a lot of phases of my life, trying to help other people because it felt right. Not because I felt like, well, I'm going to get something out of this. Like I'm going to learn something.
No, I just felt the right thing to do. But in the mix of me losing myself. And those people in their situations, I also was equally paying attention. I was paying attention to conversations that were being had. I was paying attention to my environment. I was paying attention to a lot of things and all I was essentially doing in some cases, subconsciously.
And I didn't realize it. I'm just gathering data. I'm just getting all this information, this immediate feedback of you, CJR, when you thought this, see how this worked out for that. You, when you felt this, you see. Someone else felt that say like, and so you have to, as much as it's good to get out of your own way and beat in and like lean into other people, it's equally important to not necessarily just means that you forget about everything and just be distracted.
Like there's a time and place for that as well. Like everything's just this weird balance, right? We're all really. Really, we're all gymnasts just trying to, like, trying to stay on the beam as long as we possibly can. I mean, that's really what it comes down to. And you don't do it perfectly well, but as long as you're willing to take that hit and get your ass back up there, I think, you know, you'll be able to stand a little bit longer than the last time.
Erick: Well, it reminds me of what you were saying just to kind of double back and then we'll do the intro because they haven't done that yet. Um, Simon Sinek talked about the best way to get somebody to solve their own problem is to have them help somebody else solve that same problem. Yeah. You know, he, he talks about how the best way, you know, when somebody comes up to him and do things like, I don't have any friends, how do we make more friends?
Well, why don't you go help somebody else learn how to make friends? You know, it's that idea of you doing is teaching not only to the other person or you teaching is how you learn. And so in a way, how you serve is how you learn as well. And I thought it was a really interesting take because he had a friend of his who was having some problems and they would sit and talk and, um, he found that they would have these, you know, discussions and they would sit and talk and she would talk all about her problems, all about her problems, all about her problems. And then he found that she wasn't making much progress on this, even though they were having a weekly meeting on this.
And finally, he said, how about we do this? I get, you know, half the time is mine and I get to talk about my problems and you help me solve those. And then the other half the time is work on your problems. She's like, Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. That sounds good. And then within like a week and a half, she finally, because she was helping him, she was then able to solve her problem.
And it was because she was so stuck in the me, me, me mode that when she got out of herself and start serving, then things started to fall into place. And I thought it was really interesting.
J.R.: Yeah. Uh, you know now, and I remember the Gandhi quote, is, the best way to find yourself is to lose your, lose yourself in the service of others.
That's what, yeah, I just had That wasn't for you. That was for me purely ego driven.
Erick: All right, so before we already kinda jumped into this, but um, but I think we have some good stuff there, so I definitely want to keep it in. So go ahead and introduce yourself, tell my audience what you're about, um, and. Uh, yeah, I think it's just go from there.
J.R.: Oh man, what is JR about? It's, you know, it's, it's one of those questions like now I started doing yoga more frequently and, and I've done it over the years and it's just been sporadic. But then now at this stage of my life, I'm trying to be more consistent with it. Just because one physically, my body's like, dude, stop trying to throw these weights around.
Stop trying to run this this distance.
Erick: Yeah, I do yoga 10 minutes every morning.
J.R.: Yeah. Like just, just, just be, just, just move, just stretch, just, you know, use your body weight. Like, I mean, it's like, and, and, you know, and, and the mental and the emotional and the spiritual, um, practice is to me is what's so incredible. And, you know, I know when you start class.
At least one of the instructors, she's always like, okay, we're going to start with a little meditation and she always says. She always asks, what's your intention? What's your intention for these next 60 minutes? And I find myself when she poses this question, meanwhile, everyone's eyes are closed or they're staring off like, you know, one's really looking around the room.
But in my mind, I feel like, oh my God, like I'm going to be called on. Like there's going to, there's, there's this, there's this, This class participation that clearly I have PTSD from, from my youth of where it's like, JR, it's your turn to read. And I'm like, no, I don't want to read. You know, like when you're like, you anticipate that it's coming to you.
So you try to read ahead just so you can kind of like, okay, work through it in your brain. And then when it gets to you, either you're off or the pressure that becomes too much and you still jack it up. But like, it's such a simple question. As far as what's your intention for this class for the next 60 minutes, what is your intention?
And it's not a question. It's not something that I think most of us practice frequently to think about what's our attention in our relationship. What's our intention with our relationship with, you know, if there's a partner, a friend, children, a coworker with ourselves, right? Because intimacy, you know, we talk about intimacy.
And then when you say the word in certain circles, especially. The guys were like, start getting all giddy and stuff. And you're like, dude, no intimacy before you can talk about intimacy with anybody else. You got to be able to be able to have intimacy with yourself. And again, I don't mean that in the inappropriate way.
It's just more like, can you, do you have the emotional intelligence to be able to show up for yourself, for your own emotions, for your own thoughts? Um, that's important. And so. You know, when you ask this question, as far as like, tell people about who you are and what you're about, I'm like, Oh, Oh, that question, you know, usually, I mean, usually Erick, people do all the work for me and I just didn't have to kind of answer in this case.
You're like, Hey, no, you tell us who you are, which is not a question that most of us get frequently. You tell me who you are. Most of us are like, this is who you are based on information that you either provided and you spent a lot of money to a, uh, a copywriter or marketing firm per word. And so they make this lengthy bio that's pretty much redundant as if they're trying to meet a word count, you know, for a professor, um, you know, But who am I?
What am I about, you know? I think I'm an individual that despite all the things that I've managed to get into and I know we'll probably touch on some of that I think one of the biggest things that I am and I'm most proud of is I'm a cycle breaker and I You know grew up in in a very difficult challenging childhood.
And yes, there were some positives, of course, but there were definitely some challenges and some things that could have easily derailed me and set me on a different trajectory in life. But, um, you know, I, you know, have, my father wasn't in my life. I was raised by a single mother and as much as my mom did as Best as she could with what she had, my mother was a hurt woman and my mother, unfortunately, there were some things that, you know, I was exposed to some things, you know, she, uh, she exposed me to some things that, you know, she probably not intentionally, but some, some sort of behavioral traits and patterns and things that, I mean, there's a book it's called walking on eggshells and I read it years ago and it's such an incredible book.
And when I read it, I just like, ah, like that's. Because that's how I felt a lot of my youth. My mother would get triggered by these different things, whether they were related to me or not. And I'd come home from school and walk in the house and I immediately knew, Oh, Oh shit. She is not in the best mood.
And I immediately started to learn how to walk on eggshells. And then it became this thing of where it's my responsibility to make her happy. How do I make her laugh? That's one of the reasons I'm such a jokester. I think she was my audience. I mean, I was always working through material with her, whether I realize it or not, and.
You know, and so I've As a parent now of two, I diligently try to break that cycle and to show up differently for my kids. Um, but I'm also an individual man that is, you know, that just loves, I'm incredibly curious. Uh, I love people, even though there's a lot of people that have a lot of shit and a lot of baggage and, and it's hard to love some people, but I love people.
I love listening to people. I love hearing what people have been through, what they've learned, what they haven't learned. Um, I just love conversation. And, uh, that gets me into these very long conversations at the grocery store when I only have 10 minutes and somehow I'm there for 45 minutes and I haven't picked up.
Anything and my wife is calling me like where are you and I'm like, oh my god, I ran into this person You'll never believe it and blah blah blah and she's like Dinner's ready. And I'm like, okay, I'll be there in a second. And then of course I show up 30 minutes later, right. Even though the store is five minutes away, but I just, I love learning and I've done a lot of learning.
I still have a lot more learning to do. Um, and, and I'm, I'd like to believe that I'm looking, you know, my, my buddy said this to me the other day, we were catching up, he was in the military, he was injured and he actually stayed in the military, completed this 20 years, and then after that. Went into social work and has become a therapist.
And I mean, one of the coolest, most genuine down to earth people I've ever known, big heart. He's not a, a polished guy in a sense of where like, you're going to put him on TV. Like he's going to go through like, Hey, you better get your shit together. That's kind of how he, that's kind of how he gets down.
And we were catching up the other day and he said to me, He said, you know, man, he's like, I like trauma, not drama. And I was like, you know, I marinated on that and the, and I was like, man, that's so good. And. And I'd marinated on that. And the reason why is because I'm a person that when somebody is going through something, like I like to show up for you, but the minute that someone is like, it's drama, then you see a different side of me where I'm like, I don't want to hear this shit.
I don't have time for this. I don't have the energy for it. I won't listen. I'm not curious about that. I don't do drama, but if there's some trauma, Hey, you know what? I'll roll up my sleeves. I'll lean in with you. But drama? Nah, keep me out of it. Find someone else to roll with for that. So, I mean, that's a very long winded answer to your question.
But, you know, I think it's one of those questions that I had to work through, honestly, to get to where I got to.
Erick: It's interesting. We have a lot in common. So my, my father was that same way. So he, you could come in and you would think things to be fine and boom, you know, you, you slam the refrigerator too loud or something like that.
And suddenly he's on you. And it's just, it was, it made for a very anxious prone growing up because you never knew if dad was just going to flip out sometime and from zero to 60 in, you know, no time flat. And. It was really sad because he was generous and kind and funny and incredibly intelligent, uh, super curious about a lot of things.
But then other times it was like, it was like living with an alcoholic, but there was no bottle to tell you, Hey, stay away from dad tonight. And, uh, I, yeah, I know exactly what that's like. And it's, yeah, it makes it hard to trust other people that when they say they have your back or that they love you, that they really do.
J.R.: Yeah, it is, you know, it's, it's Uh, you know, and not to, you know, derail, like sort of the direction you want this to go into. But, you know, I always find these podcasts are really fascinating because it's, it's, it's, you know, I tell people it's like, it's like a, it's a free therapy session in some cases.
And then it's also like, you know, where it's not, you're intending, intending it to be. But it just kind of takes that path and that direction. And you just, again, the mood is set and you just kind of lean into it. But, you know, my mom was, my mom had been through a lot. And, you know, my mom, you know, I forgive my mother.
Not that I ever felt that I needed to forgive my mother. Um, you know, I just, I never felt that way, but my mom, I guess maybe the guilt when I became an adult, she would say, Oh, you don't like, you don't talk to me because that I did this. And I'm like, I've never even thought about that. Like I, I, I actually.
Maybe in some way, either repress that memory, um, just as a defense mechanism to protect myself or because I've just more focused on the other positive things, the great memories that I just haven't really thought about it. But clearly you keep bringing it up. It must be something that weighs on you. And.
You know, one of those examples was my mother, you know, said to me multiple times as an adult, she said, you know, like, Oh, you have this resentment towards me because I put my hands on you when you were a kid. Now, let me clarify, you know, I'm not sure of your age. I'm 41 years old. Like you talk to anybody our age or older, and you talk about your parents putting their hands and we're all going to immediately start a circle and start reminiscing and sharing stories.
And we're gonna do it with a smile on our face about like, yeah, yeah, mom, your mom and mama will whoop our ass if this, this, this, right? Like, it's just sort of it was the culture. It was the culture. It was okay. Like where I grew up in the South. Capital punishment was a thing. I, at school, my mother gave approval that if I acted out instead of them having to call her, I would go to the principal's office and with the, with the wooden paddles, they would give me three licks and then send me back on my way.
Like it was, it was the way, the way of the world. It was no big deal. Um, however, my mother took it to a different, uh, gear in the sense of where, you know, I remember being a child. Um, and. You know, like, man, six, seven, nine, 12. And my mother would, and I'm going to use this word beat me. And, and it, and it wasn't like the fun, like, Oh, she got the bell or she got a switch.
Yeah, she did that too, but it got to a point and it evolved to a point where my mother would get a rope and she would literally tie my hands and my feet. So I couldn't get away and she would just stand over me and just hit me and I would go to school with these like lacerations all over my body. And I was always protecting my face, always protecting my face because that was my money maker.
And um, but I would go to school and again, I was, there was no space. No conversation of, for my mother of like, Hey, when you go to school, make sure no one sees that's those, those, those wounds on your body. No, I just, I had to protect my mom. She was all I had. So I would change in a separate part of the locker room.
I would make sure no one would see it. Like I was always protecting my mother and. You know, and those are things that I mean easily those are things for me to have resentment and Anger towards her but I never did I was focused on how my mother was just this incredibly vibrant individual big personality big laughter She's only five feet tall But she could fill a room with her energy that she focused in a lot of cases.
She would say to me You know, she was an abusive relationship. She, her mother gave her away. She was abused as a child. She lost the child when she was young. I mean, she's been through it, but culturally as a Hispanic woman, like you don't, you don't talk about these things. Like you just don't deal with it.
You just sort of like, you have to bury it and press on. And so anything that would trigger her, she just. When she got into a mood of like, I'm going to discipline my son, it everything just came out. It was just compounded. And I remember being around 12 years old one time, and she was standing over me and just just hated me.
And I remember looking up at her and looking at her in her eyes and just thinking to myself, like, she's not even there. Like, I don't even see her there. Like and thinking this isn't even about me. What she's doing right now isn't even about what's what I did. What I did does not warrant this. Yeah, I was a kid.
I was a boy like I did stupid shit like of course, but it doesn't warrant this and One of the craziest things After I was injured There was that whole navigation and identity that I was starting to kind of create and figure out who I was and where I fit in a society and, you know, all of the things, I mean, as a normal 19 year old or navigating those, those waters yet 19 years old with all of this, the scars, you know, it just amplifies everything.
And. And, uh, one day after a couple of years after I was injured, one day my best friend sat me down and he's like, man, you're, you need to cry. And I was like, I don't need to cry. I'm fine. He was like, no man, you need to cry. And we just started talking. I started crying and believe it or not, man, a lot of the stuff granted, yes, some of the stuff was about what happened to me and what I'm having to navigate in the world with scars on my body.
But a lot of it was. My youth, my childhood and how that was still weighing on me. And I ended up leaning in for me. It worked. And I went to therapy, traditional therapy. I found this incredible, I mean, I had to go a couple of people and finally found this lady who was in her seventies, probably late sixties.
And. She like, Oh my God, I, I, I tell my wife, I was like, yo, I would have married her in a heartbeat just because like, I was like, I just fell in love with her energy and the way she like, and she introduced this concept about you need to set up boundaries with your mother. And dude, when she said that, I was like, Andrews, with my mom, are you crazy?
We're Hispanic. We don't do that. Like, like, my mom's gonna, like, bring all the saints and pray for all the saints to come on, you know, on me and, and, like, no, you don't do that. And I realized that's what I needed to do because my mother would call me and because of her own fears that she had, you know, She created narratives that were never true.
And as far as like, Oh, you're getting success, you're gonna, you're not proud of me, or you're not proud that I'm your mother. Um, you, you find yourself in these certain circles. Um, you know, I'm not going to be good enough. Like I'm not educated enough. I don't know. Like I've never said those things. I've always elevated my mother.
And. But I just continuously this just became a pattern where it was just like draining me draining me draining me And to the point one day I said to my mom on the phone. I said mom. I love you Like I love you. You are my queen Um, you are the reason I am where I am. I was like and I will never waver from that however In order for me to really live the life that I deserve to live And you deserve to live a life as well I got to set up some boundaries.
Like I can't, when you call me and you want to marinate on things that happened two decades ago, that had none to do with me, first of all, like I can't keep doing this. And, and, and I remember my mother saying, fine, then I'll tell people I don't have a son and hung up. And that was the last thing that like, I mean, my mother and I haven't spoken and she's still alive.
We haven't spoken for four years now. Um, and you know, listen, yes. Does it pain me? Yes, because that's my mom. It's the only parent I had. Like, you know, I met my dad when I was in my late 30s, um, after he left when I was nine months old and that was an experience in itself. Um, but, um, It was just my mom and I for 18 years of my life before I joined the military.
And so of course, like I'm going to fill that void. But at the end of the day, I'm also, I've always truly believed until my mother actually leaned into a lot of that pain, those wounds that existed. If until she does, she is not going to have peace until she leaves this earth. That's just and and unfortunately, um, the hardest thing i've had to learn is that you can't save anybody.
You can't force anybody to do anything that they that you believe that they need to do and in reality they know they need to do but it's just too difficult to do because We spend so much of our energy just trying to control things and afraid and fear Fear of what might happen. And what we don't think of is fear.
This concept of like, we're afraid of this thing happening, this negative thing, death or losing, but what people don't realize is like, there's a. Like that fear is equally keeping you from even living Like it's actually getting in the way of you living and so the more it does that the more you die It's self inflicted in that point and in its own way and And so my mother and i'll just tell this quick story, but my mother I remember I was around six years old my mother was in this abusive relationship and and uh It was like a pattern with this guy for you know, a couple years A couple of years easily where, you know, any given weekend, he'd have a few, few too many Budweiser's and, um, that's just what he drank.
I'm not, no, no knock on Ann Iserbush. I'm just saying like, it could have been a Michelobulcher. I don't know, whatever. But the point is, that's what he would drink and he would have wait, you know, a few too many, something would cue him and he'd put his hands on my mom. And I would call the cops, they'd come and get him, take him away.
A few days later, he's back at the house, you know, and things would look good. And then all of a sudden they wouldn't. It's just a cycle. And one day, um, my mother and I are out and she's smiling, man. She's got this big beautiful vibrant smile and I'm looking at her like this curious kid I'm like and I finally asked her I was like, why are you smiling because I know I know what happened Why are you smiling and she's like I smile to invite the blessings if I sit here and just fixate on that event that happened I'm not gonna be able to receive and see the beautifulness that's coming our way You know, of course, as a kid, that didn't make any sense to me.
And as I got older and I started to experience my own adversity, I was like, Oh man, that makes so much sense. And it's such a beautiful way to look at it. However, given what I've told you and shared about my mother, that is a survival mechanism in the way that she was viewing it and the way that she was utilizing it, the way she was utilizing it was simply like, I need to, I need to look and find for something As if you're being carried down some river and you can't swim and the and the current's too strong And you're just reaching for branches and see if something you can just hold on to long enough She was just literally just reaching the problem was is that she wasn't when she held on to something and found something .She wasn't able really to then lean into like the blessings that really did exist in her life because then she was just worried about the fear of then losing or the next thing happening that branch breaking and now she'd be back into survival mode instead of her really leaning into like, Oh my God, thank God I'm here and, and I got this and, and that's been something that.
Indirectly, she's taught me, or as I've gone through my own adversity, I'm, yes, there was a period where I had just had to be a survivalist and just try to survive and make it through the day. But it got to a point where I'm like, okay, that's not sustainable. And that's not going to lead to true happiness.
Like, and I have to then, when I find these moments of where I'm able to come up for air, I have to then pay attention to the very thing that got me into that freaking water. In the first place, I got to, I got to train myself to learn how to swim. Like I got to train myself to do all these things. So hopefully I'm not in that space.
And if I am in that space, again, I don't react or respond the same way I just did. And. Someone asked me a question the other day. He said, does life get easier or harder? I said, Oh man. And I said, you know, I, you know, we don't, we can't predict the future. We don't know what the future, I mean, all of us have a definition of what hard is.
It's different for all of us. I said, but I could tell you the more that you're leaning in, the more that you're doing the work, the more that you're just in some cases being like the Forrest Gump and just kind of just going through the motions and, you know, and, and just kind of experiencing the journey and picking up things as you go versus being so.
Fixated and focus that you have tunnel vision and you're not able to see what's literally in front of you, not even like what's on your peripheral, what's right in front of you as like, but if you're able to do that and continuously lean in and do a lot of the work and sit in silence and reflect and, and have gratitude and pause, do those things.
Then I believe life gets easier because you. Are able to show up differently. You don't get rocked as easily as
Erick: you once used to. Yeah. For me, I see it as life doesn't get any easier. You just get better and stronger. Yep. And that's really, over time, if you choose to do so, that you become stronger so that what was once hard, you know, what would have been nearly impossible for me 10 years ago is very doable now, so that you can, you know, you just.
But that's like you said, you have to lean into that, you have to be willing to accept that, and you have to have the right perspective on it. And so for me, I'm at a position, like we were discussing at the very beginning of the podcast, where, I mean, this guy basically took 5, 500 euros from me, that's almost 6, 000.
And most people would be, you know, furious about that, and everybody's like, did it make you mad? I'm like, I was frustrated and I was disappointed. I was frustrated because I didn't get the apartment. I was disappointed because I didn't get the apartment, but I was also just disappointed in him because he was pretty nice guy.
And I, I thought this was, this was a good thing. And to have that happen, I was, that was the main thing. I was just frustrated that I didn't have the place that I wanted. And it was like, okay, and disappointed in this other person. And other than that, I just let it go. And people like, well, well, how? And I'm like, well, I just recognized that me getting mad about it would be me deciding to be in a bad mood about something that I can't change that I have no control over.
So I would put myself in a bad mood for a few days for what? Yeah. There's absolutely nothing I can do. So me being in a bad mood would be my choice. So why would I put myself in a bad mood on purpose? Yeah. Yeah, no, I never really thought of it that way. I'm like, because there's nothing I could do, there's absolutely nothing in this situation I could do out of my control.
J.R.: The only thing you do is, you know, in some cases there's, you know, processes and that are in place and that hopefully that you can maybe regain that or partial or maybe you won't, but that's all you can do is like, just do your due diligence and go through that process. But you're right, man. And I think that's the thing is that.
You know, at 19 years old when I was injured,
Erick: um, so before we go a little bit further, go ahead and talk about that with my audience so that they know where you're coming from. So, I mean, I've read, I've read your bio, so I know, but kind of explain. Yeah. When you talk about your injury.
J.R.: So I joined the military.
I joined the army after high school and I joined as, as an 11 Bravo and infantryman. Um, and six months later, I literally was on a plane going to war. This is in 2003. So, um, before the conflict in Iraq began and, um, And I'm less than a month by a few days into my deployment. I was driving a Humvee through a city car carbola when the front left tire, the Humvee that I was driving around over a roadside bomb.
And there were three other troops in the vehicle with me. They were all thrown out of the vehicle and they all walked away with minor physical injuries, but I was trapped inside. And. I was trapped inside for about five minutes and, um, listen, I can, I can, you know, I was conscious. I was in and out of consciousness.
I mean, I, I, but I, I remember a lot of the detail of what I saw, what I felt, um, what I kept thinking, what I kept saying to myself. I remember all of those things. And I can get into a lot of that detail here if, if, if you choose. But the thing that I feel like I have. Graduated from the, the details, if you will, like of those, those five minutes that almost was taking, was attempting to take my life, graduated from just focusing a lot of the pain and seeing my body change to, you know, There's something else that I should be focusing on.
And what that is, is that in the mix of those five minutes, so I, yes, I had sustained burns to, you know, over my body, um, little over 30 percent third degree burns on my face, on my head, hands, arms, part of my legs, part of my back. Um, but obviously it's on my face, it's on my head. It's very visible. There's no way to hide it.
Um, and so I could see my hands changing. Like, I mean, I don't need to get more graphic than that. Like, I think people understand what I mean. But the thing that, as much as I sustained the physical burns, the thing at the time that was threatening whether I was going to make it or not was the fact that I had a broken rib.
Um, I had lacerated liver. Um, I couldn't, it was hard for me to get oxygen. So in the midst of me trying to like gasp for air, not realizing it, I was inhaling the smoke from the fire, which was obviously doing more damage than the actual burns to the exterior of my body. Um, And I could tell you that over the course of those five minutes, there were several instances where my eyes got heavy and my, you know, as if when all of us are watching TV late at night and we're fighting that we want to get to the good part.
We want to be able to make it. And you're like, I'm hanging on. I'm hanging on. Boom. Your eyes are closed. And my eyes would close. And then when my eyes would close, I would feel nothing. I felt no pain. I didn't hear any of the chaos of people yelling outside the Humvee trying to one, do a headcount, find everybody, but then to figure out how to get to me, I, none of it was, was present.
Literally it was in the midst of my eyes being closed. It was just simply the thing that I connected with that I could hear was my breath and that I could hear. I would. Here I would have these thoughts and I could remember the vivid conversation. I was just saying to myself, like, I'm going to lose my life.
I'm going to die. I'm going to die in this way at this age. Um, like my mom's worst fear is becoming a reality. Um, like I remember having those thoughts and those conversations with myself, but then I also remember telling myself. You can't keep your eyes closed because if you keep your eyes closed, you're giving up.
And I would open my eyes and I would continue to scream and yell for someone to please pull me out. And I did this at least three, four times over those five minutes. And so for Probably a decade when people ask me what happened, I would just talk about, you know, what I saw in my hands and what I felt and you know, which, again, not dismissing it, it's all part of it.
But there came a point in my life when I started to really understand breath work and really understand the true importance of being able to pause and reflect that I then, when I looked at that five minutes, I realized, you know, it's so fascinating that when my eyes were open and I was aware of what was happening.
Man, I felt excruciating pain. Like, I felt like I couldn't breathe, like I, like I just felt life was being sucked out of me. But yet, the moment that I closed my eyes, like I felt no pain, I heard no chaos, and I just connected with my breath. And that breath to me, I, I practiced that till this day is that when life feels overwhelming, like there's a freaking bomb that just went off in my life and you know, people are, you know, needing a lot for me and you know, energy and all this stuff is being extracted for me.
Um, any point when I feel things are overwhelming, I just close my eyes. I just literally close my eyes and I connect with my breath. And I just breathe and then I just tell myself that breath allows, reminds me and allows me to understand that I'm alive, that I'm okay, that I can get through this and it doesn't have to be long and I just, I opened my eyes and I'm like, all right, let's go, let's lean in.
And so, you know, that's what happened to me. I was. I was evacuated, um, ended up in San Antonio, Texas, which is where the burn center is for the military. And I spent almost three years there in the hospital recovering. Again, I was 19 when it happened, so I turned 20, 21, 22 in the hospital. Um, and talk about, you know, identity.
I mean, I was left with looking at this individual in the mirror and not having a clue who that person was. And because I had lost my identity, my appearance for 19 years of my life. I, when I looked in the mirror, I knew that person. Now I'm looking, I'm like, I have no idea who that person is. Also the identity of being in the military.
Like I, Like I was like, I love this idea of being a soldier and I wanted to do 20 years and I wanted to go to Every school and program I could to be this highly decorated soldier at the end of my career Um, and now you're telling me I can't stay in the army And so my identities were essentially stripped away and I was just this clean vessel that was just in the world to be molded, remolded in a sense, if you will.
Erick: Right.
Um, and you know, and it was tough, man. I mean, it was, it was challenging him as, as, as anybody can imagine. I mean, just to be able to navigate that in itself. I mean, I, you know, I told a friend of mine the other day, I was like, you know, the person that I created, the, the, the, the persona that I created, like the, the, the The personality I created, the approach, the mindset, all of the things that I created was what I needed to create in order to survive that period of my life.
I needed to become this person that said when people stared at me and I knew it bothered me, instead of leaning into the fact that it bothers me, I would be like, you know, I don't give a shit about those people anyways. Like that was sort of the, who I had to create myself to be, to where I wouldn't allow those things to, to harm me and to hurt me.
And it served as purpose at that period of my life. But then when it came time for me to graduate to a next phase of my life and a sense of my relationship with my wife and relationship with other people that came into my, before I had kids, I realized that image, that persona, that person no longer needed to be.
Like I needed to let that, that per, that person helped me get to this point. But if I continued with that image, I would never allow myself to be vulnerable. I would never allow myself to trust. I would never allow myself to really have, you know, true connection with these individuals who I've learned keep deeply care about me.
And so I've had to let go of that person. And then. Sort of, again, approach life as like this baby that can be remolded and just lean into this new experience and this new journey that I'm on, um, which has led to some incredible blessings. And so it's been a journey, man. I mean, it's been 21 years, um, since that day.
And for a long time, I also refer to that day as a traumatic day as a, uh, and now I look at it as a blessing. I do, I truly do. Like, I mean, I believe that. Somebody said something to me recently and they said, they said that, that your environment can change your DNA. And I remember when this person said that I, I was like, ah, and you know,
Erick: The genetics.
J.R.: Yeah. And, and, and then the conversation ended and I just kept marinating on that. And I was just like, huh. And just really trying to, and I was like, okay, I can, okay. Because then I was like, well, you know, so when I was a kid, that man that my mother was seeing, he. Would play the piano and he would sing Spanish love songs in our on our living room and I would go and sit next to him and like Sing these songs with him because Spanish was my first language And, um, he would take me every now and then to this hole in the wall bar down the street from our house, our apartment.
And I would sing a couple songs, Spanish love songs, sing and dance at like in front of all these people that are heavily intoxicated and, you know, and, uh, And I was doing my thing, man. And when I think about, I'm like, you know what? I was born, my DNA was, that's who I am. I was always this positive, uplifting, like just fun energy to be around, curious, light people.
Like I was always that person. But then there were all these, this set of things that were taking place over the course of my life and my youth and the environment that was starting to maybe kind of, um, Take change my DNA and lead me down a different path and then you throw this injury into it that also can then change my DNA and set me on a different path and all it took for me to get back to who Jr was always destined and meant to be was.
One person and then two people and then five people leaning in and showing up for me as human beings and what's this?
Erick: Was the person after you were injured more angry? Was it somebody?
J.R.: Oh, I was 100 percent angry. Yeah Yeah, I was 100 percent angry. Um and a lot of that anger stemmed from You know, it's like people had these biases when they would sit down and have a conversation with me You know You know, they would look at me and they'd say, you're a wounded veteran.
Um, and that's all they saw. And I'm like, yeah, no, that's all you see. But if you listen to me, you would identify that there's so much more to me. There's interest I have, there are, Personality, you know, traits that you're probably like, Oh man, I could get with, you know, I'd like, I can get behind that. This person is cool.
This person is funny. This person likes sports. This person doesn't like this does like that, you know, Oh, I can connect with that individual. And all I kept. The more I would try to explain myself and, you know, allow people to understand who I was, what I kept running into was people still fixated on the fact that I was a wounded veteran.
That's what they, that's where, that's where the wall was. And they would just stop there. And it's, and then there were a lot of people that kept telling me they were going to, you know, cause at this point I had identified that I wanted to be a speaker. Like I enjoyed this work. I wanted to continue to do it on a bigger scale.
And. People were like, yeah, we'll help you. We'll help you. And then those people wouldn't help you. And then I'd get mad because I'm like, well, you said you were going to help me. And they would always, you know, they would, I remember one person vividly saying to me, well, you know, I got other projects to work on and I said, Yeah, but you told me you were going to do this by this time.
Like, it's not like I'm coming at it, coming at you out of the blue. Like you told me this. And so the more that I just kept getting disappointed and disappointed and disappointed and disappointed, it just, just made me angry. And I just felt like no one cared. Um, I mean, honestly, no one gave a shit. That's the way I felt.
And, um, It turned into one day, my best friend, you know, telling me that I needed to cry and I started to cry and, you know, had this real heart to heart conversation. And what I realized is that I, I too played a role in that and, and turning people off because I was mad because I was angry because I, you know, I was the one that, the way I was approaching people, the way I was speaking to people.
I mean, listen, I have a gift to be able to get in front of anybody, any group of number, number of people, and to be able to speak and to make people feel something. Like I have that gift. I know, but that gift is in me. Equally can be a curse if I'm not in the best space and trust me, like there were times when I would, if Erick crossed me the wrong way, and Erick disappointed me, I would come at you, Erick, with my words, with the same words that I could lift you up or the same words, I'm literally going to paralyze you.
And, and I, once I identified that I too played a role in the way that people responded to me, I started to change. And it wasn't like I was being fake. I just understood like, okay, I needed, it's not people's fault that. You know, they don't understand me. It's not people's fault that they don't understand what I'm going through.
Like everybody has their own journeys. Like I'm not going to understand what a lot of other people go through in their lives because I haven't been exposed to that. Um, is that my fault? No, it just means that we all have different. And so I took the approach of, I need to be an educator. I need to be an educator.
I need to be the one that is teaching people, not only who I am, but who all of us are, meaning the people that I represent at that time, which was mostly service members, wounded servicemen, who we are, we're not just these individuals in uniform. We're not just these individuals with scars. We are individuals that are navigating a lot of the same things that Everybody else is navigating in the world.
It's just maybe a little compounded a little bit more just because of the fact that we are in a military environment. We are in a time of conflict. They're, they're like, they're, yes, there's, there's different, but at the end of the day, we're still people navigating the same thing that other people are navigating.
And once I understood how to then connect with people that I was in the driver's seat. All of a sudden, man, I started literally finding community. I started building community. I started trying to be a little bit more vulnerable. And the more that I would be a little bit more vulnerable about this little thing, I'm not going to give you too much, but this little thing, you know, then people, I found people came up to me and said, man, I, I can relate to you.
I can connect with you. And people started to support me. And I was like, Oh, and I just, all that was, was data again, data that I was gathering that said, This works, this is positive. If you continue to do this, this is what people like from your brand Jr. And the more that I kept doing it, the more that I was just like, okay, I'm building, I'm building, I'm building to the point where, you know, I found myself in the, you know, on stages and I found myself in the entertainment industry.
And, you know, and you know, the big show that I was on was dancing with the stars. And, you know, people say, how did you go on that show? And how did you, how were you nervous? And I was like, I was never nervous, but now it makes sense.
Erick: I watched some of the videos and you can move, man!
J.R.: But you know, that's who I was always meant to be from that kid that was dancing in that bar.
I was always meant to be this person that was comfortable, you know, being on, on that stage. I was always meant to be that. So when the opportunity presented itself, it was like, all right. Like I'm in my element. This is who I am. And listen, man, I, you know, when you're raised by a single woman, you have no other choice, but to be her dance partner, whether you want to be or not.
And so, you know, you learn at an early age how to get down. And then, you know, my mom, you know, also taught me how to dance. When I realized that girls like guys that can dance, I was like, Hey, why don't you show me some extra moves, mom? But, um, yeah, it's been, man, it's been a journey. I mean, it's sometimes I stop and I really reflect and marinate on, You know, wait, is that, was that my life?
Was that me? It just, it's, it's one of those things that you just can't really, I mean, you could write this stuff up in a script and a movie and some show and something. I mean, but. I mean, the fact that I'm living it and the fact that, yeah, it's, it's pretty wild.
Erick: So, question for you. Do you think that, do you think that you could have become the person you are now? Meaning, you know, becoming that person that you want to be. Do you think that the person you were before your accident and the things that happened with that, do you think that he could have reached that without the accident?
J.R.: So in my instinctively, I want to say no. I believe we all have to as much as it sucks. That we have to go through the hardship. I believe that the hardship that's, that's where it's at, right? That's where the opportunity lies to grow, to evolve. Um, I'd like to believe had I not been injured that I'd like, that I would have gotten to this point.
I think the difference is it would have taken a lot longer.
Erick: Yeah,
J.R.: it would have taken a hell of a lot longer. Because when you go through something like this, and no matter what, what it is that you go through, when you go through something that's, it's, you know, pretty life changing, it almost amplifies it, it accelerates, it accelerates, you know, the trajectory and the journey that you're on.
And it just puts you in a space where you're like, You have to then learn how to pay attention to all these things and and it just starts you want and once you get a Little taste of it. I mean, it's like anything in life, right? It's like not that I'm, you know, encouraging people to lean into other bad habits or whatever, but Yeah, I like but it but it's like it has the same Effect in a sense of where once you start leaning in a little bit and get that gratification and get that reward, you're like, it's just kind of addicting.
I think I want to continue to do this. I think I want to continue to lean into this. I think I want to explore more avenues of this or that. And all of a sudden you're like it. And so it just accelerated my curiosity and accelerated my journey to figure out. What did I needed to work on and to really lean into the feelings that I was feeling every time something would happen, like I would get this, this feeling in my chest or this pit in my stomach or, you know, my in my throat.
And I realized, oh, there's a lot of trauma that needs to be addressed. And, uh, So I think it just accelerated it. I mean, I, but I mean, I also equally could have been an individual in the military and I'm not saying all individuals in the military like this, but I mean, because there was distraction because I would, would have been busy with my career and busy with whatever, like, it could have easily just, I just could have been a distracted individual.
Um, still potentially, Yeah, potentially, potentially. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, when I think about it, I definitely feel like I could have, I don't know how the hell to say this. I don't even know what I'm trying to say, to be honest, but I just, I think you get the point. I think your listeners understand what I'm trying to say is that.
I just, because we're so conditioned that when we go through things, we just need to look for distraction. And in some cases, that's okay. And I get that. Um, however, like, I just think I just would have been distracted and I just would have been repeating the same cycle over and over and over. Maybe not to the degree of what I was exposed to as a child, but I think I still would have been angry.
I think, I think there still would have been things that would have triggered me. Um, that would have, you know, just set me off. I think, yeah, I mean, it would have taken me a lot longer to learn this lesson.
Erick: Yeah. Yeah. I kind of think back on my life and I definitely had plenty of struggles with things and, but I think I always had a concerted effort of, I wanted to figure out how to be happy and I wasn't when I was younger, because, you You know, a lot of trauma growing up, so it took, it took me a long time to figure out those things, but a lot of it was just, I had to find the right resources to be able to do that, and so there are times when I go, you know, why did it take me until I was in my 40s to find stoicism, because this is, you know, even though I had philosophy when I was in college, you know, but I think that, like you, I'm a very curious person, and so I was always trying to, like, To find things to grow and to learn and to, you know, I believe in the kind of the potential of the human mind because I love learning and when I moved out here to Amsterdam, I gave away and sold, you know, pretty much most of my books and I would say I probably had about 3 or 400 books in my library.
And I would say probably about 80 percent of them were like psychology. Habits, things along those lines, you know, just all interesting like that. Then the other batch was all psych, well, I guess it probably about 60%. You know, there was like sci fi and, you know, then instructional books, like how to play guitar and things like that.
But, but I kind of wonder like, you know, why. In some ways, I feel like it took me a long time to get to that place where I was happy, but I was always getting happier and I want to, you know, but yeah, so it's, it's always an interesting thing for me when I, when I talk with people about that, and they have one kind of pivotal event that really changed the whole direction of their life and recognizing that that was the thing that turned them into who they are and they became the the person that they're happy with and that otherwise if they hadn't had that tragedy that that hard thing that really knocked them down they probably would have just meandered along and not been of anybody of consequence.
J.R.: It's almost, you know, when you were mentioning all those books that you had, you know, I'm sitting there looking at my office and I'm right in front of me, I'm like, Oh my God, I have all these books. And it's, it's, you know, it's almost like, You know, you read books to gain knowledge, right? And people say knowledge is power.
And I'm like, okay, to me, you know, if, if you're just gathering knowledge and doing nothing with it, it's just knowledge, right? It's just, it's cocktail talk. Um, but when you apply knowledge, knowledge applied, that to me is power. Right. That's the way And so to your point, like, you know, you clearly were curious about all of this well before a lot of, you know, the events that happen in your life.
Um, but I think you need the life events in order for this stuff to be like, ah, like, cause then you're, then, yeah, then it's just like knowledge. Now it's just like, okay, like, okay, this is cool. Like if this happened, this happened, but. It doesn't apply to your life in that moment. So you're just kind of like, okay, cool.
It's just knowledge, but then life happens. And then it's like, Oh, here's your opportunity to then take that knowledge and apply it. And now there's, but, but if you never had that event, you would, you would never know how it applies to you. And it's no different than, you know, like, I mean, I think that's, I think that's a misconception with it.
And, and, and that. You need to go through what you need to go through and, and, and, um, in order for you to be able to understand, it's like, I tell people all the time, you know, like when I have the opportunity to speak and, you know, I share at the end, I'm like, listen, all of us in this space, no matter how many people are in the audience, all of us are in different places in our lives, professionally, personally, some of us are going to be in spaces in our lives where, you know, What I've shared over the last 45 ish minutes, man, it's just, it's just striking a chord with you.
It's, it's boom. It's, it's home. It's what you need in this moment. Others. Business is booming as Antonio Brown, the Pittsburgh's former Pittsburgh Steelers said, you know, like everything is going well, personally, professionally, everything is fantastic. And that's great. That's amazing. I'm happy for you. Um, I'm not wishing the negative.
I'm not hoping that something horrid, tragic happens to you or people you love. Um, But what I encourage people to do is that in the midst of you, as you go through life, you have to look at it as if when you're walking down the street and you see a penny on the sidewalk. And most of us won't pick up that penny.
Cause we're like one, some of us are germaphobes or we're like, where has that penny been? That penny is dirty. But then the other ones are going to be like, you know, we're like, well, that penny's on tails. You don't pick it up. Cause that's bad luck. And then there's the other of us that are just going to be like, well, I got money in my pocket.
I don't need that penny. And my approach. To life is this every conversation that I have, every experience that I have, good or bad, major, minor, whatever. I view it as if there's that penny and I'm picking it up. Even if I feel like it's not relevant to me, even if I feel like I don't necessarily need it, I still pick it up right now because the more pennies, the more change I pick up along the way, eventually you want to be able to have a pocket full of change that.
You can pay your, you, when everyone's stuck on one road and you look over to the left and you're like, man, why is that road vacant? And I'm like, well, that's a toll road. You got to have X amount of change to be able to, to access that road and get to where you want to go a lot quicker. Boom. I got all the, I picked up all these pennies along the way.
And so for me, I'm always the knowledge that I'm accruing is to hopefully prepare me for the cycle of life and the next thing that's going to present itself. And it doesn't mean the next thing has to be this traumatic event on the same scale of what happened to me at 19. It just traumatic event can simply be like, Oh my God, I'm not getting this many.
You know, engagements as I'm accustomed to, or like it, it just, it just means in the moment it's traumatic for me. It's a big thing for me, but it doesn't mean it has to be life altering. It doesn't mean that it has to be like you lose somebody you love dearly. It doesn't have to be that, but then I'm able then to apply this knowledge to that situation.
And I believe that that's what allows, I mean, I mean, listen, everybody's life was turned upside down during, at the beginning of COVID right in 2020. And. I remember, you know, obviously me as a speaker and traveling all over the world and that was not happening and, you know, people in my circle were like, Oh my God, what are we going to do?
Like, this is everybody's real life scenarios. What are we going to do? And my wife was like that too. And I was just like, it'd be fine. It'd be fine. Like, I'm not going to sweat it. It's gonna be all right. And I started to then ask my team of like, Hey, Is virtuals a thing? Like, you know, is that something we could do?
Like we lean in. Oh, no one's no one's done that. No one's doing that. And I'm like, let's figure this out. And so I would like test, you know, my computer and my camera and my mic and my lighting and my Wi Fi. And I was testing all these things. And then one day out of the blue, somebody on my team says, Hey, somebody is asking if you're comfortable doing like a keynote virtually.
And And I was like, let's lean into it. Let's see, let's, let's go. And that first one dude. And for the next like two years of my life, I was the busiest I'd ever been off in the comfort of my home. Right. It was the, the, the, the, the joke of we're a professional up top. Right. And you know, God knows what down below, right?
Like, I mean, it was just like, I was in my office knocking out three, four keynotes in a day and making great money. And it was just like, you know, but I never panicked. I never stressed because life has conditioned me that, okay, when adversity presents itself, when everyone else is trying to be chaotic and like worried about how level headed are you going to be?
How calm are you going to be? How present are you going to be to what's happening? And, you know, I got to share something, man, because. You know, I don't know if anything that I've shared in this episode has, has connected or resonated with any of your listeners. We won't know until it comes out and people start to, you know, share with you or people feel inclined to share something with me.
Um, and that's the beauty of life. You just got to like show up, speak from your heart, speak, speak authentically, um, function authentically and, and not be focused on the outcome of like, I hope. X amount of people reach out to me and say that this changed their lives. I mean, I'm just putting some, I'm putting myself out there with the hopes that it'll help somebody no matter what stage of life that they're in.
And I think these are all timeless conversations, right? Like, I mean, somebody, I mean, I went back when. When we, you and I got connected, I went back and listened to episodes from a while ago. Um, and you know, and, and so, you know, I could find a year from now, someone saying, man, I heard you on, on, on that podcast.
Like that was cool. Like, or whatever. But the thing is, is that I. imbued as this individual that, that has all this knowledge and, you know, bring him in to help us. And yes, I've accrued a lot of knowledge and wisdom, if you will. And, and I do love sharing, but I'm also a human being that puts myself out into the world because I know the world can equally give me the things that I need as a human being.
And what I mean, and I'll tell you this quick story. So a few years ago I did this engagement for this, uh, for Delta airlines. I'm just, and it was in Atlanta and it was going to be two dates and it was going to be on a Tuesday and then on a Thursday. And so I just knocked out two, I mean, I'm a Delta snob.
So this was kind of like a cool thing for me to go to the headquarters and speak to the company. And, you know, the culture was incredible. Like, I mean, just from the bottom up, like this, the culture was incredible. It just wasn't like that flight attendant, like, welcome on board. Like, no, it was like, everybody was like that.
And within the company that I was encountering. And so I was on a high when I flew back home. And then all of a sudden something, I don't know what it was, man. I can't even remember. Something just triggered me on the plane and just put me in like in this funky space. And I remember landing and every time I land, I always text my wife and just say, I landed no matter where I am, just landed, headed to the airport, Hey, headed home, whatever, or headed to the hotel, headed home.
And, uh, I didn't text her. I was like, I just need it. I just need some time to myself. So I get in my car and I am exiting the parking garage and I pull up. I don't even look at the person. I just put my hand out the window with the ticket. And the person, I can feel that somebody grabs the ticket, but they're not taking it.
So naturally, like I look up and I see this older lady. And she's, we're both holding this ticket as we're making eye contact. And she asked me, she says, um, she says, uh, What, what happened to you? And I said, Oh, I was in a car accident. Just simple. And she says, Were, were, were you burned? And I said, Yes. She says, Were you in the military?
I said, Yes. And she says, Was most of your body injured? I said, Yes. And then she said, Can I pray for you? And I was like, Yeah, sure. And, you know, she quietly just closed her eyes and she was praying. And then I look up and she's writing and I'm like, all right, now she's doing the transaction. Now I'm going to give her my credit card.
We're going to pay. We're going to move this thing along. Well, she hands a ticket back to me and as she hands it back to me, she says, are you familiar? Are you familiar with Buddhism? And I said, yeah, not, not really. And she says, well, within Buddhism, there is a Buddhist we call Amitabha. And she said, Amitabha represents infinite light, infinite wisdom.
When I see you, I see Amitabha. And she gives this beautiful explanation and she hands me the ticket and she wrote it on the ticket, Amitabha. And. Then I went and she was like, here's your total. And I gave her my credit card paid. And I was like, thank you so much. And she was like, have a great day. And you know, sort of the metaphor for life, right?
Like that arm in a parking garage is down. And once I paid it lifts and allows me to go through sort of that metaphor for life. And I had to pay my dues before I can actually move on to the next phase of my life. And I remember calling my wife immediately. And I was like, babe, I meet the bar. And she was like, what?
And I was like, I'll tell you when I get home. And I just literally for the next 30 minutes driving home, put the windows down and I just was like present and just really still engaged in that conversation. And what this lady shared with me, I haven't seen that lady at that airport since then. And I travel all the time, but I'm not supposed to see her again.
This is a lady I've asked and they said, yeah, you know, she, she, you know, she doesn't work here anymore. That's all they said. Right. And I was like, okay, but here's a lady that I don't know what her life was about. I don't know what experiences she said. I don't know who she is. I don't know anything about her.
All I know is that she was a person working the booth in a parking garage, which many of us in society would probably look down on her because we're like, what's that lady? She just works in a parking garage. Like, what is she going to show? She has nothing to share. She has nothing to offer, like nothing.
And yet that lady is the one that shifted my perspective. The guy that gets invited to do all these grand things. She helped me. That's the beauty in life is that, but I want people to understand something over the course of that very, I mean, it seems like it might've been a 10 minute conversation. It wasn't, it was probably like three minutes max.
But when she asked me, was I injured? I could have said none of your business when she said, were you burned? I could have said none of your business when she said, you know, when you're in the military, where is it? Most of your body. Can I pray for you? Absolutely not. Are you familiar with Buddhism? No. And I don't care.
I could have shut it down so many times over the course of that interaction, yet life has taught me. That in those moments is when you have to be more open, you have to be more present, more engaged because there's something, a penny or two, that is going to be dropped here and it's up to you how you actually want to receive that and what you actually receive.
And so I believe I'm just a makeup of all the people that I've interacted with over the last 21 years of my life. Like, even this conversation with you. I'm just a product of this. That's, that's what I am. Like, I'm not self made. Like, like, I am made through my interactions, my connections. With people, with real people, going through real things in life.
Erick: So, speaking of that, do you have a particular framework or belief system that you adhere to, like Buddhism or Stoicism or some type of philosophy? Or have you just kind of cobbled that along as you've been going along?
J.R.: Man, I just, yeah, I think there's not one particular thing that I, like, I believe. You know, whether it's stoicism, whether it's like any sort of religion or whether it's, uh, any other philosopher or their approaches, like, I think for me, I just, I love creating sort of like this a la carte component of it, where I, there's a lot of beautiful things about this and the beautiful things about that.
And, you know, I just kind of, I'm like open to all of it. Um, and, and see how that resonates with me. Um, You know, I think, you know, Buddhism is something that I've wanted to lean in a little bit more into just, just because it, it, it feels like there's like a lot of alignment. Um, you know, like I mentioned earlier, when I do a lot of yoga, they're always talking to, you know, making a lot of references and, and, you know.
Yeah. You know, I feel like a lot of that stuff resonates with me, but I think that's true for a lot of things. I think there's a, you know, I've heard you talk about in previous episodes, you know, and, and, and, and talk about, you know, um, stoicism and, and like, and I'm like, Oh, I vibe with that. Like that makes, I'd get that tattooed on my body right now.
And so for me, it's not so much like, like, like I'm, I'm a, like, I feel like I'm in a space where I could. Essentially pull from a lot of different things and and it works for me right now. And, um,
Erick: okay. Yeah, I'm kind of the same way, but stoicism is kind of been my core, but I like branching out and finding lots of other things and pulling them in, uh, whether that's from, like, understanding neuroscience, whether that's some aspect of Buddhism that I find interesting, whether that's, um, you know, almost anything because, but I found that stoicism is just, you know, It just speaks to how my mind works, because I'm very rational and that personality just really, really just clicks for me because it allows me to kind of logic through, you know, why am I feeling this way?
Why did I react that way? What's going on? What can I do to make sure that when this thing happens, that I handle it in a way that I want to. And it's just tools that are fantastic, but it doesn't have a lot of the baggage that most religions have because there's no rules. It's just principles and tools.
Yeah. For me, that's, that, that's kind of why I cling onto it. And I kind of joke around that in many ways, it's like the record room in Buddhism, because they're, you know, how you can say something in stoicism, you can find almost the exact corollary within Buddhism. Um, so for me, that's really interesting.
And I also really enjoy like physics and stuff like that, quantum mechanics, understanding those types of things, how they didn't relate with the ideas of consciousness and reality. And so, uh, you know,
J.R.: it's all that stuff intertwined. Yeah, yeah, there's there's all that stuff is intertwined. There's a lot of intersectionality between it all.
Um, I mean, you know, in a lot of ways, like you said, a lot of us are saying that the same things, um, you know, we believe in a lot of ways, the same things. Um, it's just. In some cases, like you said, like the rules is what changes things, um, you know, that, that, that, that, and, and, and, you know, so, yeah, so I, I love this concept of just being this being that is existing and, and, and being present to, you know, because here's the thing, like, if, if I, and again, no knock on anybody, if they are.
More exclusive to one or another or whatever, that's fine. It works for you. But for me, my viewpoint is, well, if I'm so gung ho on this one thing, when I have an interaction with somebody that introduces something else to me, that could be beneficial to me doesn't mean I have to completely like, embedded and get embedded with it.
But it means that there's something that I can gain from that. That's going to help me in this space of my life. Um, you're closing yourself off from that and, you know, and, and, and, you know, and
Erick: I can relate to that because I grew up Mormon and, you know, that's very much. Very strict and this is how things are. These are the rules and you follow them. And, you know, I, I joke around with my Catholic friends that I gave it up for Lent. Um, and, uh, but yeah, I just found that as I got older, I just. I reached a point where, when I did a little more digging into the history of the church and realized, you know, what Joseph Smith was about, what Brigham Young was about, I'm like, okay, these guys were con men, and they were, they were not very good people.
And this whole thing was just made up to make, to take money from people. And while there were, there were some core Christian principles, which I think were very good, and a lot of early Christianity was actually based on stoic philosophy. A lot of the early Christian thinkers were Stoics and, or had, you know, studied Stoicism and then they, you know, were joined the Christianity at that point and were very influential in that reign.
And if you look at the Ur Christian church, it was a very, it was very different than what we have now, but. So a lot of the principles I think were good, but all of the rules and all of the rituals and everything on top of that, you know, and Just this whole very repressive culture and lifestyle. I just found it, you know, suffocating and once I left it was just like it was freeing I remember once I made the decision to leave it was like I had shrugged off a giant Backpack full of like a thousand pounds and just like, and I physically felt lighter.
I had to look around the room like, am I actually lifting off the floor? What? This feels so weird. It was a literal feeling like, you know, and I was like, that was, that was weird. Yeah. Just a decision in my mind that, okay, I can let go of this because this is all a bunch of bullshit. I've tried my best. For I think it was at that point, 30 years, 32 years, and I'm it just doesn't work for me.
And it's the reason why it doesn't work is it's it's. It's not true. Let it go. And it was like, Oh, I felt free and I kind of wandered around and, you know, did a lot more exploring, kind of figured out, did all the stuff that I should have done in college, um, and figured out much more who I was. And then, um, like I said, about eight years ago, I found stoicism and it was just like, ah, you know, just having these light bulb moments of like, Oh, if I understand what I can control and what I can't, and let go of those that I can't.
God, that makes life a lot easier. And I've stopped getting stressed and angry about the things that I can't control because, well, I can't control them. So I can face reality and just be like, yeah, I can't control that. So, okay.
J.R.: So what would you say to someone like myself who, you know, isn't really that familiar with, Um, stoicism, like where, where does one begin?
Like I'm, I'm in a stage of my life right now where I'm like, you know, I want to, I got all these books, I got all these different sources that I can gain a lot of knowledge and just really connect with different things. Um, Like I, I, that's the space, like I was in a space of my life. So just to, you know, bore you a little bit, but like my, my daughter is 12.
And for the past couple of years, she's been playing, she plays softball and she plays select travel club, whatever people call it, wherever they're from. And. I got asked to coach and then it just turned into like, I was the head coach and I just, and when you cross into this level of sports, it's a completely different beast that consumes your entire life.
And I'm also the personality that no matter what I get into, I get into it, like whatever I'm doing, I'm going to do. And so, um, I had leaned in heavily into this and, you know, still, I mean, I had another kid and so my son's three. Yeah. Um, and, you know, there was just work and I was, I went back, I went to school, went to college when I was in my mid thirties.
And so I just graduated a year. Like, so I just had all this stuff and I just didn't have time or energy. Um, and so now I'm in a space in my life where I'm not coaching anymore. My kids are pretty much on autopilot, if you will. Like it kind of have routines in place. Um, and so I'm like, you know what, I got some time where I just want to read and I want to listen to people talk and I want to, you know, right.
And I just want to just be present with it, whatever it is. And so if I wanted to learn more and if I wanted to, what's a good starting point for someone like myself to learn more about sort of the basics, the principles Stoicism and I'm going to write it down as you're talking.
Erick: Well, I happen to know there's this really great podcast.
J.R.: Which by the way, I don't know if you picked up on it. You know, um, that when, when I logged in, I was like, you know what? This is this podcast speaks to me because one is talking about stoicism, which I'm familiar with, but it also is coffee. And I love coffee. And so I had to make myself a little coffee.
You know, so I've been sipping on that. So yeah, so obviously there's the podcast.
Erick: Yeah, what
J.R.: episode
Erick: then, or where do I start? Wow. I have 1 that I did about a, uh, probably about 3 or 4 months ago called, uh, I think it's just beginning stoicism that we're kind of go over the 4 main kind of 4 main elements of it.
Um. So what I'm on 309 was my last one. So probably maybe like probably about 10 episodes back. I think, uh, one of my favorite ones, this is what I tell a lot of people is three 18, no two 18. Um, it's about acceptance and an exercise I did there that is really good about accepting yourself. But I think you, I think where you are psychologically, you're in a good space for that.
I often recommend that one to people who. Who struggle with self acceptance and really understand what that means and how to apply that practically. Um, there was one book that got me into it, and it was mentioned from Tim Ferriss, this was about eight years ago. And it was called A Guide to the Good Life, The Art of Stoic Joy.
Uh, it's by William Irvine, he's a, uh, a philosophy professor. And that was the first exposure I had to it, which was really good. Obviously, you can get Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. Anything by Epictetus and Seneca are fantastic. And they're, they've been around for 2000 years. So you can just find them open source.
Um, and Ryan Holiday, Ryan Holiday is a good place to start. Obstacle is the Way is probably, um, but he's got a whole number of them and he's kind of, that was, he was instrumental for me really picking up a lot of things as well. Um, but some of the core things to understand, you know, are understanding what you can control and what you can't.
That's a huge one right there. Um, which I think a lot of people really struggle with because. The only things you really have control over are your beliefs and your perspectives, your thinking, those type of things, the choices you make, and the actions you take. That's it. Like, you don't even have control over your own body, as you well know.
You know, what happened to you, you didn't want it to happen, it just happened. And you can't change what happened, but you can decide how you want to respond to how that happened. So that's a big thing. The other big thing is, you know, talking about emotions. Then, By understanding that you can't control other people and letting go of those things, you're much better able to maintain your own emotional equilibrium because you take that moment before you want to snap at somebody and you go, you know, I want to react to him, but is that going to be helpful?
Let me try and respond to that. Let me take a moment and think about it, you know, and, you know, they talk about like, you know, Your perspective is so important because you can't ever be offended unless you choose to be offended. You know, and they even they mentioned that several times. It's like you are only harmed if you chose choose to be harmed.
Your mind is complicit in your own offense and people have a hard time getting that. Like, no, no, no. What he said was really offensive. I'm like, if he said it in Swahili, would you have found it as offensive? Because he said the same thing. You just didn't understand it. Is because you made an interpretation of your mind about it.
You made a decision about what it meant and what it felt like to you. That's what actually caused that. So, that's those are a couple of big things. Another 1 is, uh, let me think, uh, don't want to take it too much time on this, but I think if somebody's your 1st tuning into this is their 1st listening up to an episode, it'd be really good for him.
Um, that you're kind of continuing on with that is that your thoughts, your thoughts are the things that cause your emotions. So most people think that emotions are something that just happens, they're uncontrollable. You know, I just, I felt, it's just how I felt. It's like, well, no, you had some type of thought that happened that caused you to feel what you felt.
And they'll be like, no, no, no, this thing just happened. And that's what I felt. I said, no, no, you made a judgment about that thing. And that's what you felt. And, and I'm like, okay, let me give you a quick example. Say that you had a friend from high school, you guys were super tight, but over the years you lost touch.
You get a note from another mutual friend of yours says, Hey, by the way, I didn't know if you didn't know if you knew this, but John died 5 years ago. And suddenly you are just wracked with grief and you just you feel that pain. You're really upset. You feel that sadness that your friend John died that, you know, you guys were close butts in high school.
And the thing is, is that if it were truly just the circumstance, when John died, you should have felt grief, but it wasn't until you heard about him dying, you thought about what his death meant, and you made it gave it some meaning about how much that he had been important to you, and that you're going to miss him, that you felt those feelings.
Yeah. So, those are, those are some of the core things. Uh, then probably the biggest thing is to live a life of virtue, practice wisdom, practice justice, meaning how you treat other people, practice courage, and, and practice self discipline. Those are the four cardinal virtues, and if you are living a life where you maximize those four things, you will be happy in any situation, you'll be able to overcome any struggle that happens to you, because to them, that's the, that's the essence of what it means to live a good life, is to follow those four virtues.
J.R.: Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I'm gonna, I wrote down a lot of this, uh, stuff and I'm gonna, I'm gonna go back and search for those, that episode you mentioned, but, um, you know, all this is just aligns, you know, with, with, with, with a lot of my beliefs and my thought processes and, you know, how I like to show up and stuff.
And so, you know, I think, um, It's so true. I remember having this conversation, man, this was probably, gosh, I want to say like seven, six, seven years ago, I happened to be in Philadelphia at this event and there was this charity and, um, we were in like this, like a little theater and I'm, I'm sitting there and.
There's a kid that is part of this charity and he's blind. And, um, he's sitting there and I go and I sit next to him and we just spark up a conversation and he's got personality. And so we're sitting there cutting up both of us. And, and I remember he said, I remember he said, he said, you know, cause I asked him, of course, you know, his age and, you know, not being able to see, and what are the challenges there?
And he said, you know, he said, um, he said, you know, a lot of the world looks sad. What I have to live with as a disadvantage. He said, and, and people feel sorry for me. He said, but honestly, I feel sorry for you guys. And I was like, all right, all right, come on. Like, come on. What do you mean? And he said, well, he said, just take for example, like when I interact with somebody, he's like, I can't see them and make a judgment.
He's like, I have to like. Listen to what that person's saying and I have to like like feel that person's energy He said you guys that he's like everybody that can see he's like lucky you guys that you guys could see He's like, but it also serves as a disadvantage Because you guys are making judgments just because of what you see.
You never even give yourself the opportunity to listen or to feel. And I was like, wow, you little shit. That is good. And you're so right. And, and I just. Again, one of those moments where it's like, here's this, the, the teacher, if you will, me, JR, being taught, being the student and being taught by a source that you would never think of as a teacher, a 12 year old kid that is dropping wisdom, man.
And I'm like, that's so true. And it's been one of those things that even, I mean, I try again, I'm a human being, but I try when I come. I don't have any sort of interaction contact with somebody I try to lead with that mindset of like, okay, this is, I need to be present. I need to listen. I need to feel. And that's when I make my judgment, right?
On whatever that is, right? If I feel like, oh, you know, don't want to whatever, but it was just one of those just simple, simple, simple little reminders that. Really pierced, um, for me. And it's, it's been a lot of, you know, sort of the, the basis of how I like to show up for people, because I mean, I remember there was a period of my life where all I wanted was for someone to really essentially remove those biases and just listen and show up and, and connect.
And so, um, Yeah, man, it's it's it's, you know, I'm so I'm so blessed. I'm so blessed. The life that I have in the life that I've created for myself. I created this life like because I was able to pay attention and lean in and not dismiss a lot of these beautiful lessons that were, you know, and so I've been able to, you know, put all these pieces together and create a great life for myself and for my family.
Um, but at the end of the day, It all just goes back to like, how are you showing up every single day? And in order to better show up, you got to find ways and practices that are going to allow you to, um, to rejuvenate yourself and to replenish your own cup and to fill your own cup. And, you know, so I'm always leaning into other people and trying to, you know, get that from other individuals and other interactions that I have.
But, um, you know, I'm, I'm super blessed. I'm super blessed. And I know that. A lot of people probably in despite what they're going through right now probably feel that they're not and that's normal. And that is a human response because when you're going through it, it sucks. However, um, I can tell you that there is another end of it.
And, um, but you do have to go through it. And you do have to lean into it. And you can't just live this model of like, I'm just going to look for the blessings. Um, you have to then when things, You have to trust, and you have to say at the end of the day, as hard as it is, find those blessings and practice that gratitude in the most horrible situations that you can find yourself.
There's always something. And the more you condition your, your brain to look at life that way, I think you're going to always be able to find something beautiful, despite whatever mess you find yourself in. So, um, Yeah, it's been fun, man. Thank you for the opportunity. Thank you for allowing me to share, you know, a little bit of my life with you and your audience.
And, um, and, you know, I'll definitely be subscribing, man, and, and staying in touch and following, you know, sort of your journey and kind of where you're going and where life's taking you. But, um, this has been a lot of fun. I really appreciate it.
Erick: Oh, I appreciate it too. It's been very enjoyable. It's, uh, not every day that I get to talk to somebody who's, you know, been in your situation, but I, it's, for me, it's really amazing to see that you took that, that you took that, that, like, that, like you said, that clean slate and went, all right, I can do something with this because a lot of people wouldn't, there'd be plenty of people who'd just be giving up, they'd be drinking, doing drugs, whatever.
And, um, You know, when you're in that situation, it's kind of like you're the synchronous one and you decided and I'm really impressed with that. So good on you. Wow.
J.R.: Thank you, brother. Appreciate that man.
Erick: All right, so that's the end of this week's stoic coffee break. It was really a pleasure talking with J.R. Martinez and as always be kind to yourself, be kind to others. And thanks for listening. And if you aren't following me on social media, I would really appreciate it if you would. You can find me at @stoic.coffee on threads and Instagram, or at Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, LinkedIn, Facebook, at @StoicCoffee, all one word.
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